FIFA World Cup 2018

[The Lusophone]

I don't see how anyone can claim the debate over who's better between Ronaldo and Messi is settled, considering similar achievements and the fact that they're both still playing. It's not like it's a Ronaldinho situation where Messi's emergence in 2006-07 essentially ended his Barcelona career - and his stint as the best in the world.

Neither's the GOAT though. 

[Rich]

3 minutes ago, MexicoJack said:

I don't see how anyone can claim the debate over who's better between Ronaldo and Messi is settled, considering similar achievements and the fact that they're both still playing. It's not like it's a Ronaldinho situation where Messi's emergence in 2006-07 essentially ended his Barcelona career - and his stint as the best in the world.

Neither's the GOAT though. 

Ronaldo has won trophies in every single place he has played at club and international level, he has dragged Portugal to a Euro Championships, he has led Real Madrid to 3 consecutive European Cups, he continues to do this every year and the guy is 33 years old and shows very few signs of slowing down with a longevity of playing at the very top level of football for at least 15 years, which neither Maradona or Pele did.  If he isn't at least in the conversation as the GOAT alongside the likes of Pele and Maradona and yes, Messi, then I don't know what crack you smoking, especially when you so glibly can just go "Nah neither are the best"

[MDK]

Is this argument worse than the English pundits only talking about England?

In any case, neither Messi or Ronaldo are the best. Kevin Lisbie is still playing.

[Rich]

2 minutes ago, PolaMDK said:

Is this argument worse than the English pundits only talking about England?

In any case, neither Messi or Ronaldo are the best. Kevin Lisbie is still playing.

We are asking for the Greatest Of All Time

Not the Greatest Of Aneurysm Time

[Sam]

If Argentina win the World Cup with that backline then Messi desrves to be GOAT. I didn't realise how poor that Argentina team looks, they do however have great talent to pick from in strikers so perhaps all out attack is the best route to go...

[The Lusophone]

31 minutes ago, Rich said:

Ronaldo has won trophies in every single place he has played at club and international level, he has dragged Portugal to a Euro Championships, he has led Real Madrid to 3 consecutive European Cups, he continues to do this every year and the guy is 33 years old and shows very few signs of slowing down with a longevity of playing at the very top level of football for at least 15 years, which neither Maradona or Pele did.  If he isn't at least in the conversation as the GOAT alongside the likes of Pele and Maradona and yes, Messi, then I don't know what crack you smoking, especially when you so glibly can just go "Nah neither are the best"

I don't think any modern player can be the GOAT, because the likes of Pele achieved what they did at a time that, in terms of the support a player gets now in everything from the design of boots and balls to specially tailored diets and growth hormone regimes, is essentially the stone age. I'll always rate a Pele over a Ronaldo higher because of that. Could Ronaldo and Messi have thrived in those days of heavy balls and the kind of tackles that today are straight reds being the norm? Maybe, but I'm not convinced they'd be posting the kind of numbers they do in the modern era.

[Liam]

23 minutes ago, MexicoJack said:

I don't think any modern player can be the GOAT, because the likes of Pele achieved what they did at a time that, in terms of the support a player gets now in everything from the design of boots and balls to specially tailored diets and growth hormone regimes, is essentially the stone age. I'll always rate a Pele over a Ronaldo higher because of that. Could Ronaldo and Messi have thrived in those days of heavy balls and the kind of tackles that today are straight reds being the norm? Maybe, but I'm not convinced they'd be posting the kind of numbers they do in the modern era.

By that reckoning though, Ronaldo is competing against a better prepared, arguably better calibre of player than Pele was.

Oh, I'd also take Ronaldo over Messi personally. He offers that bit more for me.

[TCO]

1 hour ago, PolaMDK said:

Is this argument worse than the English pundits only talking about England?

I'm choosing not watch any of the English coverage this time until they get knocked out. It's much less annoying that way!

[Colly]

I'm not entirely sure what people would prefer, ill informed knowledge of the Iran team? It is annoying, but without employing a ridiculous number of local experts you aren't getting that level of coverage.

Is Tim Vickery part of the BBC team by the way? Madness if not. 

[Chris2K]

8 minutes ago, Official Collyombia said:

I'm not entirely sure what people would prefer, ill informed knowledge of the Iran team? It is annoying, but without employing a ridiculous number of local experts you aren't getting that level of coverage. 

The matches that have more obscure teams perhaps, but last night we had Spain vs. Portugal (with Cesc Fabregas in the studio), one of the best halves of football I can remember in a World Cup to analyse, and the BBC spent 10 minutes of half time showing an interview with Raheem Sterling. That's certainly what I, and I assume others, get pissed off with.

[Colly]

Did it? I'll be honest I kind of switch off during the punditry... 

[Rich]

50 minutes ago, MexicoJack said:

I don't think any modern player can be the GOAT, because the likes of Pele achieved what they did at a time that, in terms of the support a player gets now in everything from the design of boots and balls to specially tailored diets and growth hormone regimes, is essentially the stone age. I'll always rate a Pele over a Ronaldo higher because of that. Could Ronaldo and Messi have thrived in those days of heavy balls and the kind of tackles that today are straight reds being the norm? Maybe, but I'm not convinced they'd be posting the kind of numbers they do in the modern era.

Pele did not play the kind of schedule that Messia and Ronaldo have done for years.  His domestic season was much less arduous and was more about friendlies, Ronaldo and Messi just keep winning things at the highest level every year, not just every 4 years.  As Liam said, the calibre of opposition is higher nowadays and while I see your point about the differences in balls and the way the game is played, you can't mark someone down on the circumstance that they can and can not play in.  The laws and technology of football moved on and I can't see how and educated and balanced point of view would mark down a footballers skill based on circumstance alone.

[Kyle]

That French team just isn't fair.

[Baddar]

Not a bad front 3.

[9 to 5]

10 hours ago, MexicoJack said:

Tbh until either one of them wins a World Cup its still Pele. >_>

Pale wasn't even the best player for Brazil in that era, Garrincha was a more talented player.

[TCO]

You actually can't tell what Dembele's stronger foot is. He takes corners off both and doesn't seem to favour either dribbling. It's madness!

[Malenko]

 

15 minutes ago, 9 to 5 said:

Pale wasn't even the best player for Brazil in that era, Garrincha was a more talented player.

Pele was still a major factor in Brazil's WC title in 1970. Garrincha was long gone. He played with two very strong Brazil squads. Garrincha played in the first one, only. This is not to add on to any "goat" discussion which I don't really care about these days, but rather to point that out.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Malenko

[Adam]

49 minutes ago, Official Collyombia said:

I'm not entirely sure what people would prefer, ill informed knowledge of the Iran team? It is annoying, but without employing a ridiculous number of local experts you aren't getting that level of coverage.

Is Tim Vickery part of the BBC team by the way? Madness if not. 

I read a feature from Vickery last night on the BBC website, can't remember if it was about Suarez or Guerrero but it was one of the two so he's definitely involved.

[Katsuya]

Australia aren’t doing half bad here. Bizarre that they struggled so much in qualifying - especially considering they finished behind that shambles of a Saudi team.

[Chris2K]

Well that wasn't a penalty. I'd be more forgiving it was given in real time, but to not give it then do so after VAR is madness.