Official 2012/13 Premier League thread

[Baddar]

No trophy presentation? :/

Against Swansea I believe.

Over the moon with that. Class from every player tonight. What a squad this is.

Really? I'd say this is the weakest squad you've ever had in my lifetime. If I had to pick 11 players from Man Utd and Man City, I'd probably pick more City players. In fact, I'd probably pick more Chelsea players, too. It amazes me that this side has won the league so easily... Well it would if City had a competent manager and Chelsea didn't seem to be run by a set of chimps.

They're still on course for the highest ever points haul, so it's not like it's all been down to City and Chelsea's failings.

[Matt]

No trophy presentation? :/

Against Swansea I believe.

Over the moon with that. Class from every player tonight. What a squad this is.

Really? I'd say this is the weakest squad you've ever had in my lifetime. If I had to pick 11 players from Man Utd and Man City, I'd probably pick more City players. In fact, I'd probably pick more Chelsea players, too. It amazes me that this side has won the league so easily... Well it would if City had a competent manager and Chelsea didn't seem to be run by a set of chimps.

They're still on course for the highest ever points haul, so it's not like it's all been down to City and Chelsea's failings.

True, but you've been carried a lot by RVP, he's earnt you 28 points this season (by my count, it could be slightly out), that's 1/3rd of your total.

[Baddar]

No trophy presentation? :/

Against Swansea I believe.

Over the moon with that. Class from every player tonight. What a squad this is.

Really? I'd say this is the weakest squad you've ever had in my lifetime. If I had to pick 11 players from Man Utd and Man City, I'd probably pick more City players. In fact, I'd probably pick more Chelsea players, too. It amazes me that this side has won the league so easily... Well it would if City had a competent manager and Chelsea didn't seem to be run by a set of chimps.

They're still on course for the highest ever points haul, so it's not like it's all been down to City and Chelsea's failings.

True, but you've been carried a lot by RVP, he's earnt you 28 points this season (by my count, it could be slightly out), that's 1/3rd of your total.

We've had runaway top goalscorers for us in the past, so that shouldn't really come into it.

I'm not arguing that this is the best United team ever or anything, just that they deserve credit for recording so many wins and, as noted, possibly winning the highest number of points ever too.

[MJB]

We won't win the last five games, I don't think. But it's still been a great season.

Many talk about this not being a great team, but I think it's a very good squad. And squad is certainly the key word. In the past (eg. '99), we had a great first XI and then the odd sub here and there. However, this year we've had 18-20 players who have all played well for parts the season.

[Cheeky Hughes]

If the image of United holding up the "Champions" banner isn't a strong enough kick up the arse for City to spend properly in the summer, I don't know what is.

Last year we signed a expensive marquee signing in Aguero and won the league. This year United did the same with Van Persie. Hopefully City will blow everyone out of the market again this time around.

[Nerf]

Gotta agree with Matt. The only reason you've been so successful this campaign is because everyone else has been so poor.

[Matt]

I'll give Fergie credit, he's got the best out of an average bunch of players (for Man Utd's standards), beyond that I'm struggling to think of more than a few players who've had great seasons. Rafael has been much improved, Carrick has been great, De Gea has been great the last 4-5 months, Hernandez had that spell where he was awesome, Ferdinand had a decent spell and obviously RVP... other than that, you've been fairly average yet still managed to win the league at a canter.

[MJB]

Vidic has been immense since Christmas aswell. Him playing 20 odd games this season has given us as many points as Van Persie. It's unbelievable how much we missed him last season. He took a while to get back to form this season but as I said, since Christmas, he's been brilliant.

[Baddar]

Evans has had a really good season, and Jones stepped up in big games too.

[Matt]

Yeah Vidic had a good end to the season too.

[Jimmy]

I'll give Fergie credit, he's got the best out of an average bunch of players (for Man Utd's standards), beyond that I'm struggling to think of more than a few players who've had great seasons. Rafael has been much improved, Carrick has been great, De Gea has been great the last 4-5 months, Hernandez had that spell where he was awesome, Ferdinand had a decent spell and obviously RVP... other than that, you've been fairly average yet still managed to win the league at a canter.

Are you feeling alright, Matt? Have you had a few too many strawpedo's tonight?

[Matt]

There is a chance I'm still drunk from the last 3 nights

Nah, as much as I don't think he's the greatest manager ever (I'd question if he's even the best Man Utd manager ever) I'm far more inclined to believe that his discipline and the way he's managed the squad is a big factor in their win than the performance of average/inconsistent players like Evra, Cleverley and Welbeck.

[Asuka's Gonna Kill You]

No trophy presentation? :/

Against Swansea I believe.

Over the moon with that. Class from every player tonight. What a squad this is.

Really? I'd say this is the weakest squad you've ever had in my lifetime. If I had to pick 11 players from Man Utd and Man City, I'd probably pick more City players. In fact, I'd probably pick more Chelsea players, too. It amazes me that this side has won the league so easily... Well it would if City had a competent manager and Chelsea didn't seem to be run by a set of chimps.

I rank it as one of the greatest we've ever had. I've had countless discussions on it with United fans, quite a few that disagree too. Realistically what SAF has done is set us up for the next decade +. A good amount of experience still in the side in Ferdinand, Vidic, Giggs, Van Persie etc and a great amount of youth in the likes of Jones, Smalling, Evans, Rafael, De Gea, Kagawa, Hernandez, Welbeck, Cleverley amongst people such as Zaha and Powell too.

Massive depth in the squad and the great thing is that all of these younger guys have had time to gain the important experience that they need and done that with experienced players around them, meaning we're being successful in the present and gearing up massively for the future at the same time.

Tonnes of defensive options, a good amount of wingers (even if they've been mostly awful this season) and one of the best set of attacking options in football. The only real area that can do with additions is central midfield, which has been glaring for a while. Realistically this is one of the best squads we've had for quite some time, though I don't think as many people will realise that just yet, but will within time. Won the league, knocked out of Europe by a bit of a mental decision, out of the COC after resting most players and getting defeated in ET and knocked out of the FA Cup after going to sleep and letting a 2-0 lead slip. Great signs really and with the younger guys getting loads of experience this season, you'd expect this squad is just going to get better and better. Great squads aren't just built on world class players or "But compare this player to that one in another side...", that's not how you rate and rank a squad really.

The RVP argument I've never got. If he wasn't there, it's quite likely somebody would be in his place scoring goals and winning us points too. And De Gea has been as crucial as him if we were really going down that route with the amount of crucial saves he's made throughout the season.

Edited April 22, 2013 by JohnnyPerfect

[ZJ Penn]

United have won a lot of games which they could have easily drawn, or even lost, especially at the start of the season. Whereas City are the opposite. They've drawn and lost games where theyve dominated. Usually that sort of thing averages out over the season but this year I think its fair to say one teams been much more fortunate/clinical than the other.

Still great effort by United. Shame they got dumped out the Champions League. Would have been interesting to see how well they coped against Barcelona, Bayern and Dortmund.

Edited April 22, 2013 by ZJ Penn

[Matt]

So what you're saying is you don't rate rank how good a side is by comparing them like for like with their competition? Stop being silly.

And I don't think "this side will be great in the future" (and I'm far from convinced that Welbeck, Cleverley, Evans, Zaha, Powell and Smalling are going to be great players) is a good argument for why this is a good squad now, by that logic Arsenal have had a great squad for years now.

Take Fergie and RVP out of Manchester United and drop them in Manchester City or Chelsea and I reckon that team wins the league

On top of that, you're not even close to being as good as Barca, Madrid, Munich and Dortmund. Short of the game against Braga (?) you looked thoroughly unconvincing in Europe all season, you couldn't say that about any Man Utd team I remember.

[Adam]

I agree that saying "RVP has given you 25 goals so without him you wouldn't be doing as well" is a stupid argument. It's akin to having 10 shots, scoring none of them and then saying "well if it wasn't for the goalkeeper we'd have won easily".

This United team has not really stood out this season. Nor have many of the players, if any besides Van Persie. But they have been organised and excellent at grinding teams down which, for about 60% of this league is enough to beat them.

[Asuka's Gonna Kill You]

So what you're saying is you don't rate rank how good a side is by comparing them like for like with their competition? Stop being silly.

And I don't think "this side will be great in the future" (and I'm far from convinced that Welbeck, Cleverley, Evans, Zaha, Powell and Smalling are going to be great players) is a good argument for why this is a good squad now, by that logic Arsenal have had a great squad for years now.

Take Fergie and RVP out of Manchester United and drop them in Manchester City or Chelsea and I reckon that team wins the league

On top of that, you're not even close to being as good as Barca, Madrid, Munich and Dortmund. Short of the game against Braga (?) you looked thoroughly unconvincing in Europe all season, you couldn't say that about any Man Utd team I remember.

You mean the same Madrid that we were about to defeat up until a referee decided to have a meltdown and send off a United player? Up until then we were undefeated in Europe, went to Madrid and probably should of won the game and then went home, got everything spot on and then got undone by a red card. That sounds a bit dickish and like a massive excuse really, but that's simply the way it went. People went into that game saying we'd get slaughtered, which we proved was sheer nonsense. Outside of Barcelona we match up well with all of the above three sides on paper, time will tell though.

That's not the logic either. The difference is that what we've put in place is getting results and bringing success, so no, it's nothing even remotely similar to Arsenal. It's quite tiring hearing the old line of "Take SAF out" or now that we've signed Van Persie "Take RVP out...". Of course Fergie is a fucking sensational manager, how we'll we'd be competing without him we simply wont know until it happens. You're using if's and but's, the facts are that we have these people and that'll always defeat the argument of "But if you didn't have so and so", realistically none of us know how we'd fair without either one of those. Funnily enough Van Persie hasn't even been our best player this season either.

My argument wasn't that this side will be great for the future and therefor it's a great squad now, that's just something I'm putting out there because it means added potential to what we're already producing. We've got the perfect balance of what we need right now and with a top midfield signing, we're sorted. Hey, if you see it differently, fair dues, because quite a few people I've had this discussion with do. But nothing's going to change my view on it, I think within time people will look back and realise how great this squad actually was. And as I said, it's only going to get better and with the gained experienced for the younger guys this season and gelling of the new additions, I'd expect even more next season.

[Nerf]

I agree that saying "RVP has given you 25 goals so without him you wouldn't be doing as well" is a stupid argument. It's akin to having 10 shots, scoring none of them and then saying "well if it wasn't for the goalkeeper we'd have won easily".

This United team has not really stood out this season. Nor have many of the players, if any besides Van Persie. But they have been organised and excellent at grinding teams down which, for about 60% of this league is enough to beat them.

And yet it's a completely reasonable statement to make when you replace RVP with "Suarez" and United with "Liverpool."

[Matt]

So what you're saying is you don't rate rank how good a side is by comparing them like for like with their competition? Stop being silly.

And I don't think "this side will be great in the future" (and I'm far from convinced that Welbeck, Cleverley, Evans, Zaha, Powell and Smalling are going to be great players) is a good argument for why this is a good squad now, by that logic Arsenal have had a great squad for years now.

Take Fergie and RVP out of Manchester United and drop them in Manchester City or Chelsea and I reckon that team wins the league

On top of that, you're not even close to being as good as Barca, Madrid, Munich and Dortmund. Short of the game against Braga (?) you looked thoroughly unconvincing in Europe all season, you couldn't say that about any Man Utd team I remember.

You mean the same Madrid that we were about to defeat up until a referee decided to have a meltdown and send off a United player? Up until then we were undefeated in Europe, went to Madrid and probably should of won the game and then went home, got everything spot on and then got undone by a red card. That sounds a bit dickish and like a massive excuse really, but that's simply the way it went. People went into that game saying we'd get slaughtered, which we proved was sheer nonsense. Outside of Barcelona we match up well with all of the above three sides on paper, time will tell though.

That's not the logic either. The difference is that what we've put in place is getting results and bringing success, so no, it's nothing even remotely similar to Arsenal. It's quite tiring hearing the old line of "Take SAF out" or now that we've signed Van Persie "Take RVP out...". Of course Fergie is a fucking sensational manager, how we'll we'd be competing without him we simply wont know until it happens. You're using if's and but's, the facts are that we have these people and that'll always defeat the argument of "But if you didn't have so and so", realistically none of us know how we'd fair without either one of those. Funnily enough Van Persie hasn't even been our best player this season either.

My argument wasn't that this side will be great for the future and therefor it's a great squad now, that's just something I'm putting out there because it means added potential to what we're already producing. We've got the perfect balance of what we need right now and with a top midfield signing, we're sorted. Hey, if you see it differently, fair dues, because quite a few people I've had this discussion with do. But nothing's going to change my view on it, I think within time people will look back and realise how great this squad actually was. And as I said, it's only going to get better and with the gained experienced for the younger guys this season and gelling of the new additions, I'd expect even more next season.

Or the same Real Madrid that were the better team over 180 minutes and would have probably beaten you had Nani not been sent off (regardless of whether that was right and it's not as cut and dry as you're pretending it was) had Rafael been sent off minutes later for handball? And I have no idea why you think you were undefeated in Europe, #1 and #2. You also came from behind in all but one of your 4 CL wins. You were definitely unconvincing in Europe.

My point that RVP and Fergie's management skills have carried you this season is perfectly acceptable in arguing that you don't have a great squad because like I said, put those 2 into Chelsea or City and they'd probably be about as good if not better than you've been this season. Side note, I disagree with Adam about RVP's goals being a stupid argument, his goals have been responsible for exactly 1/3rd of their points tally, had RVP not gone there could you honestly imagine Welbeck/Hernandez/Rooney earning them an additional 28 points. it doesn't taint their achievement but it indicates that rather than being a great squad, they've got a few brilliant players, Van Persie being the key one.

[Adam]

I agree that saying "RVP has given you 25 goals so without him you wouldn't be doing as well" is a stupid argument. It's akin to having 10 shots, scoring none of them and then saying "well if it wasn't for the goalkeeper we'd have won easily".

This United team has not really stood out this season. Nor have many of the players, if any besides Van Persie. But they have been organised and excellent at grinding teams down which, for about 60% of this league is enough to beat them.

And yet it's a completely reasonable statement to make when you replace RVP with "Suarez" and United with "Liverpool."

When have I ever done that, even once? I feel I am quite pro-Liverpool on this board.

Matt, sure Welbeck/Hernandez/Rooney probably wouldn't have covered the goals to earn those additional 28 points, but does them not signing RVP also mean Fergie wouldn't have tried to spend £20 million on another striker? Surely it's fair to assume that Man Utd wanted to find a new striker when Berbatov left regardless of RVP's availability last summer?