NBA 2012-13 Thread

[OGpistolpete]

Also, you can't state you haven't watched a whole game this season and then disagree with someone who says that you should because there is an incredible amount of talent playing right now. How the fuck would you know?

I don't disagree on the talent level. I used to watch the NBA all the time, but quit this year because I just don't enjoy it anymore since the whole season is just going to come down to the Miami Heat vs. either the Thunder or Spurs. The talent of guards in the league has never been better, but we're still at a point where the centers and power forwards in the league are absolutely atrocious (unless they can run and jump for an alley oop), so there's no real entertaining big man play like there used to be.

It's hard to watch my favorite team, the Cavs, play because they are so bad and the way things are right now means they will never really be good again unless they continually get really high draft picks to pick up poor kids who get stuck in Cleveland, even though EVERYONE only wants to play in a big market like NY, LA, Houston, Miami. I absolutely despise the idea of these "super teams". No free agents want to go to small markets, thus smaller market teams barely have a chance unless they've successfully spent four-five years in the gutter, working there asses off just to get nearly on the same level as a team like Miami or Los Angeles, who just sit there and collect superstars.

The amount of parity in the league is atrocious. I live near Detroit, a market similar to most teams in the league, but watching the Pistons is a freakin' waste of time because none of their games mean anything. Even if they were to make the playoffs, they would get the seventh or eighth seed and immediately get swept by an Eastern Conference that's literally nothing but five teams that have a chance to contend for anything. The Western Conference is certainly a lot better, but I've grown up paying attention only to the Eastern Conference so there's never any emotional investment for me watching Western Conference games.

The league has turned so superstar-based I can't really stand it compared to the other three-leagues where the idea of a team actually matters.

Yeah, that's just a little about how I feel, but I'm a dumbass, so yeah, please ignore me.

[Red Devil-Taker316]

The argument that the NBA is superstar based now has always been weak. The NBA has been superstar based since the NBA-ABA merger in the late 70s.

Center is probably the 2nd deepest position in the NBA right now. It may not be like the 90s (which was a historic time for centers), but Noah, Varejao, Lopez, Howard, Marc Gasol, Chandler, Hibbert, potentially Bynum is he gets healthy (which he probably won't), and even guys like Bogut (needs to get healthy), Splitter and Chris Andersen aren't scrubs. Shooting guard is by far the weakest position in the league.

The NBA has never been a league about parity.

Small markets seem to be doing just fine. For example, Indiana, Memphis, OKC. Everyone wanting to play in NY was overblown. Amar'e wanted to play there because it was the only team that paid him. Then there was Melo. No one wanted to go there the entire decade before.

The Eastern Conference talent wise was absolutely dreadful from 2000-2007. It's been a lot better since Boston's big three.

[livid]

The NBA has never been a league about parity.

A million times this.

[HC]

I don't wanna call this early, but it looks like Miami v. San Antonio.

Addressing the discussion at hand: The NBA will always be a superstar driven league simply because one player can make such a drastic difference both offensively and defensively. Other sports have more players and positions, thus more emphasis on the team as a unit.

Edited June 4, 2013 by HeadCheese

[OGpistolpete]

The argument that the NBA is superstar based now has always been weak. The NBA has been superstar based since the NBA-ABA merger in the late 70s.

Center is probably the 2nd deepest position in the NBA right now. It may not be like the 90s (which was a historic time for centers), but Noah, Varejao, Lopez, Howard, Marc Gasol, Chandler, Hibbert, potentially Bynum is he gets healthy (which he probably won't), and even guys like Bogut (needs to get healthy), Splitter and Chris Andersen aren't scrubs. Shooting guard is by far the weakest position in the league.

The NBA has never been a league about parity.

Small markets seem to be doing just fine. For example, Indiana, Memphis, OKC. Everyone wanting to play in NY was overblown. Amar'e wanted to play there because it was the only team that paid him. Then there was Melo. No one wanted to go there the entire decade before.

The Eastern Conference talent wise was absolutely dreadful from 2000-2007. It's been a lot better since Boston's big three.

The center position is not freaking deep when you can name only five guys that are legitimate. Noah, Gasol, Lopez, and Hibbert are all great centers. Howard is a joke now. Chandler has never been anything more than a rebounder how occasionally blocks and grabs a pass under the hoop and dunks. Why are you even mentioned Varejao, Bynum, and Bogut to back your argument when you said yourself they've been nothing but injured. Splitter is only good because he's on the Spurs, while Birdman is the biggest joke in the league. That leaves only about, four to five actually consistently good centers in a league that holds 30 teams. 2nd deepest position my ass.

I'll give up on the parity and superstar arguments, but I still don't like it.

Small market teams don't do just fine. Like I said before, they have to lose their ass off for years just to draft a core group of youngsters, which half of the time doesn't work out due to injuries, busts, and lack of getting the final pieces to complete a talent puzzle. The Eastern Conference finish this year is literally all big markets on top, all small markets on bottom (Indiana the exception), while the West is nearly the same thing (except Spurs and Nuggets (both system-built completely different than normal teams)). It's hard to count Oklahoma City in the argument considering they started off with one of the top 5 players to be drafted in the past decade.

[Your Mom]

Just wait til we get D. Rose back! That will be some good Basketball!

[OGpistolpete]

This Game 7 is just another example of what a joke the NBA is anyway. I mean, this is supposed to be one of the biggest, more entertaining moments of the season. Game 7, of a conference finals series. And it's about to be a 25-point blow out? Yeah, this is awesome.

[Red Devil-Taker316]

The argument that the NBA is superstar based now has always been weak. The NBA has been superstar based since the NBA-ABA merger in the late 70s.

Center is probably the 2nd deepest position in the NBA right now. It may not be like the 90s (which was a historic time for centers), but Noah, Varejao, Lopez, Howard, Marc Gasol, Chandler, Hibbert, potentially Bynum is he gets healthy (which he probably won't), and even guys like Bogut (needs to get healthy), Splitter and Chris Andersen aren't scrubs. Shooting guard is by far the weakest position in the league.

The NBA has never been a league about parity.

Small markets seem to be doing just fine. For example, Indiana, Memphis, OKC. Everyone wanting to play in NY was overblown. Amar'e wanted to play there because it was the only team that paid him. Then there was Melo. No one wanted to go there the entire decade before.

The Eastern Conference talent wise was absolutely dreadful from 2000-2007. It's been a lot better since Boston's big three.

The center position is not freaking deep when you can name only five guys that are legitimate. Noah, Gasol, Lopez, and Hibbert are all great centers. Howard is a joke now. Chandler has never been anything more than a rebounder how occasionally blocks and grabs a pass under the hoop and dunks. Why are you even mentioned Varejao, Bynum, and Bogut to back your argument when you said yourself they've been nothing but injured. Splitter is only good because he's on the Spurs, while Birdman is the biggest joke in the league. That leaves only about, four to five actually consistently good centers in a league that holds 30 teams. 2nd deepest position my ass.

I'll give up on the parity and superstar arguments, but I still don't like it.

Small market teams don't do just fine. Like I said before, they have to lose their ass off for years just to draft a core group of youngsters, which half of the time doesn't work out due to injuries, busts, and lack of getting the final pieces to complete a talent puzzle. The Eastern Conference finish this year is literally all big markets on top, all small markets on bottom (Indiana the exception), while the West is nearly the same thing (except Spurs and Nuggets (both system-built completely different than normal teams)). It's hard to count Oklahoma City in the argument considering they started off with one of the top 5 players to be drafted in the past decade.

Tyson Chandler was the defensive player of the year last year! And rightfully so! He's been the driving defensive force on a championship team (Dallas 2011), and another 58 win team (2008 Hornets). He's also an underrated offensive player, shown by the 65% shooting three seasons straight (something all big men do not do). Varejao has been injured, but when he played this season he's been great. I mean, I don't discount Ewing, Mutombo and Shaq in terms of talent depth because of their injuries over the years. Andrew Bogut just had an excellent playoffs. Birdman too, very good defensive player. WS/48 of .207 this year. Don't think it was a complete coincidence that he was signed and Miami just happened to hit their stride.

I didn't even include PFs Davis, Aldridge, Nowitzki, Duncan, Garnett, Love or Griffin, as you mentioned that power forwards apparently sucked too.

Can't believe you said Chandler is just a rebounder. That couldn't be more wrong.

Edit: Dwight might have gotten worse, but he isn't a joke. Anyone else gets 17-12.5, 2.4blk is considered a very good player.

Edit2: Didn't even mention Al Horford, Vucevic (11.9 rpg), Greg Monroe or Andre Drummond.

[HC]

This Game 7 is just another example of what a joke the NBA is anyway. I mean, this is supposed to be one of the biggest, more entertaining moments of the season. Game 7, of a conference finals series. And it's about to be a 25-point blow out? Yeah, this is awesome.

Blowouts happen in every sport, even in the playoffs. Would you prefer them script the finishes like WWE? The fact that it went seven games is enough to show that it was competitive.

Edited June 4, 2013 by HeadCheese

[Plubby]

It's sports. Shit happens. Sometimes you don't play well (the BCS National Championship game would be another example). That's why we play best-of-7 game series. HeadCheese is exactly right - it's not like the heat won all 7 games by 25 points, the Pacers actually had to beat the Heat THREE FRAKKING TIMES for us to even BE in this spot.

[Your Mom]

Yuck. Just flipped over to the game after Raw. That makes me sad. Go Spurs I guess

[Red Devil-Taker316]

The small market thing is a bit overblown too. Yes, big markets have the advantage. But they too have had their time in the cellar. Boston, LAC, NYK, Brooklyn (if that's even considered a big market), and Miami all had their times at the bottom as of late. Dallas might have it soon as well.

[gunnar hendershow]

The NBA has never been a league about parity.

A million times this.

I really get the feeling that with the new CBA we'll see an increase in parity. You can't have a big three anymore, 2013-14 will be the last year for James/Bosh/Wade before at least one of them joins a new team. The luxury tax is so brutal now that unless you make Lakerbucks you have no hope of justifying it. Basically the future is teams like the Pacers who are built up of a bunch of very good players with one emerging star and not teams that are built from the top down. It's not a hard cap, but it's pretty close. By 2015 we'll really start to see the effect this has on the league.

With the depth of talent in the league only increasing on an annual basis it's really possible that the 7th or 8th seed actually means something on an annual basis.

[HC]

It could be worse too. At least it's not like the MLB where LA and NY can spend into oblivion without worry of a salary cap.

[Benjamin]

This Game 7 is just another example of what a joke the NBA is anyway. I mean, this is supposed to be one of the biggest, more entertaining moments of the season. Game 7, of a conference finals series. And it's about to be a 25-point blow out? Yeah, this is awesome.

What the fuck are you talking about? Have you never watched sports before?

[Red Devil-Taker316]

The NBA has never been a league about parity.

A million times this.

I really get the feeling that with the new CBA we'll see an increase in parity. You can't have a big three anymore, 2013-14 will be the last year for James/Bosh/Wade before at least one of them joins a new team. The luxury tax is so brutal now that unless you make Lakerbucks you have no hope of justifying it. Basically the future is teams like the Pacers who are built up of a bunch of very good players with one emerging star and not teams that are built from the top down. It's not a hard cap, but it's pretty close. By 2015 we'll really start to see the effect this has on the league.

With the depth of talent in the league only increasing on an annual basis it's really possible that the 7th or 8th seed actually means something on an annual basis.

The NBA has never been a league about parity.

A million times this.

I really get the feeling that with the new CBA we'll see an increase in parity. You can't have a big three anymore, 2013-14 will be the last year for James/Bosh/Wade before at least one of them joins a new team. The luxury tax is so brutal now that unless you make Lakerbucks you have no hope of justifying it. Basically the future is teams like the Pacers who are built up of a bunch of very good players with one emerging star and not teams that are built from the top down. It's not a hard cap, but it's pretty close. By 2015 we'll really start to see the effect this has on the league.

With the depth of talent in the league only increasing on an annual basis it's really possible that the 7th or 8th seed actually means something on an annual basis.

It may help it a bit, but again, usually if a player can get heads above the rest, which it looks like LeBron might be doing (has done?), it will create a Jordan scenario where there are so many teams that could have won a title if it weren't for him. It really seems like we are heading that route with LeBron. The new luxury tax rules may break up the Heat, but they will also break up the Pacers and the Grizzlies, and a heck of a lot faster. We already saw it with the Thunder and James Harden.

[OGpistolpete]

Idk why I said Power Forwards were atrocious earlier that was my bad.

Alright Chandler is straight. For some reason I always think he is way older than he really is tho.

And no, this is my first professional sports experience.

Btw Red-Devil I got mad respect for your knowledge. You've proven me wrong!

[Plubby]

You playing the self-victimization card has become as certain as death and taxes.

[gunnar hendershow]

The NBA has never been a league about parity.

A million times this.

I really get the feeling that with the new CBA we'll see an increase in parity. You can't have a big three anymore, 2013-14 will be the last year for James/Bosh/Wade before at least one of them joins a new team. The luxury tax is so brutal now that unless you make Lakerbucks you have no hope of justifying it. Basically the future is teams like the Pacers who are built up of a bunch of very good players with one emerging star and not teams that are built from the top down. It's not a hard cap, but it's pretty close. By 2015 we'll really start to see the effect this has on the league.

With the depth of talent in the league only increasing on an annual basis it's really possible that the 7th or 8th seed actually means something on an annual basis.

The NBA has never been a league about parity.

A million times this.

I really get the feeling that with the new CBA we'll see an increase in parity. You can't have a big three anymore, 2013-14 will be the last year for James/Bosh/Wade before at least one of them joins a new team. The luxury tax is so brutal now that unless you make Lakerbucks you have no hope of justifying it. Basically the future is teams like the Pacers who are built up of a bunch of very good players with one emerging star and not teams that are built from the top down. It's not a hard cap, but it's pretty close. By 2015 we'll really start to see the effect this has on the league.

With the depth of talent in the league only increasing on an annual basis it's really possible that the 7th or 8th seed actually means something on an annual basis.

It may help it a bit, but again, usually if a player can get heads above the rest, which it looks like LeBron might be doing (has done?), it will create a Jordan scenario where there are so many teams that could have won a title if it weren't for him. It really seems like we are heading that route with LeBron. The new luxury tax rules may break up the Heat, but they will also break up the Pacers and the Grizzlies, and a heck of a lot faster. We already saw it with the Thunder and James Harden.

The difference is that Jordan had Pippen (and Grant/Rodman) and the Bulls as a whole had a real strong team around him for all 6 titles. Yes he was heads and shoulders above the rest of the league, but he never single-handedly won the title (though he took over Finals games like no one ever before or after). What's going to affect LeBron is the inability of a team to give him that third star player now. If he does it right he goes to a young team with budding talent who won't lose their nucleus to free agency as quickly as a team built up of veterans would. He's above the rest of the league, absolutely, but we've seen it time and time again that despite that he can't get it done on his own. When a team can just build their entire defense around neutralizing James, like they were able to do in Cleveland, it's nearly impossible to win a 7 game series.

I don't think it'll have NFL levels of parity but we'll at least see a greater number of teams on annual basis with a shot to win.

[wrathofcarnage]

The Cavs have another #1 Draft pick, they could get REALLY good in the next few seasons. Irving is a budding superstar and they have some good young talent. They still have some room to maneuver before they have to start extending players like Kyrie, so if they make a solid consolidation trade for another top-shelf talent to pair with him, they could be a winning team VERY soon.