Official 2012/13 Premier League thread

[Hobo]

Sami*

It feels good to not be spelling the name wrong today!

[Baddar]

I read that Kagawa has turned down the no. 7 shirt at Utd as he wants to prove himself first. Fair enough, really.

[Summers]

He said he gave them a list of numbers that meant something to him personally. The 7 isn't one of 'em.

[Lineker]

I read that Kagawa has turned down the no. 7 shirt at Utd as he wants to prove himself first. Fair enough, really.

Dunno why, Michael Owen at Man Utd is not a tough act to follow!

[METALMAN]

also it's just a number. it means nothing!

[TCO]

also it's just a number. it means nothing!

Except that's a load of bollocks. Numbers in sport, football not excluded, are a massive deal.

[METALMAN]

except no they're not. only idiots who are easily distracted by that sort of thing allow them to become a massive deal.

[TCO]

except no they're not. only idiots who are easily distracted by that sort of thing allow them to become a massive deal.

So all intangible aspects of sports mean nothing because only "idiots" make them a massive deal? History and tradition is a huge part of sporting culture, what went before plays a massive role in today's game. Iconic numbers are just that, iconic.

[METALMAN]

yup. The number 14 shirt at Arsenal is "iconic" because your favourite player, Thierry Henry, wore it. But in reality, he was just given the number because it was there. Before, it was just like any other number (and still is, of course). People like you think think that the number 14 shirt now contains greatness or whatevs. Which is silly. You see, Thierry Henry was a great player because he was a great player, not because of some kind of magic imbibed in the shirt number.

Likewise Cristiano Ronaldo. He became a great player at Man United off his own back. He wasn't possessed by the spirit of George Best or David Beckham. If Kagawa is of such a mindset that he thinks the number he wears has potential to affect his performances, or if he feels pressure from wearing a particular number, he's a blithering idiot.

To paraphrase Scroobius Pip, it's just a number.

[Thrilla]

TCO is a Newcastle fan though, he has to believe that whoever wears the number 9 shirt for them is the greatest striker ever and the embodiment of Jackie Milburn, Malcolm McDonald, Alan Shearer and Peter Løvenkrands.

[Guest mr. potato head]

Don't mind metalman, he's just being metalman. Was only yesterday he gushed over such quantifiable and non-romantic things as the beauty of a stadium and the vehemence of a rivalry.

[METALMAN]

that's totally irrelevant. you're really stupid.

My argument was that a number shouldn't affect how you play. And neither should a stadium, however beautiful. You've completely missed the point.

you should just forget about football or even trying to make structured points with a modicum of sense to back up your point (which I thought journalists like you were supposed to do) and go and join One Direction or something and be shit along with them.

[Adam]

But Nicklas Bendtner wears number 52.

THAT HAS TO MEAN SOMETHING!

[Plubby]

A stadium shouldn't affect how you play?

"Home advantage is a myth"

- metalman

[METALMAN]

Oh Plubby, why must you be an idiot as well? How nice a stadium looks isn't really going change anything. The people inside the stadium might make a difference.

So you can take back your stupid home advantage is a myth thing.

[Plubby]

You said it, not me. You take it back.

[METALMAN]

Except I never said or implied anything of the sort. :/ There's far more to home advantage than the stadium you play in - home support or the lack of travelling. Stuff that actually has an impact.

[Guest mr. potato head]

that's totally irrelevant. you're really stupid.

My argument was that a number shouldn't affect how you play. And neither should a stadium, however beautiful. You've completely missed the point.

you should just forget about football or even trying to make structured points with a modicum of sense to back up your point (which I thought journalists like you were supposed to do) and go and join One Direction or something and be shit along with them.

No, your argument was that numbers "mean nothing", when in reality they mean tradition and continuity. Nobody actually thinks a player plays better because of the number he's wearing.

[METALMAN]

But they don't mean anything really. I know you're used to American sports where they have the daft custom of retiring shirt numbers every five minutes, but that's not really a thing in football. There's no such continuity in the Manchester United #7 shirt because besides having been worn by Best, Ronaldo, Beckham & Cantona, it's been worn by a whole load of duffers that neither of us will have ever heard of. And Michael Owen.

Yes, numbers are nice, you might forever associate Diego Maradona with Argentina's number ten shirt. But there's no such continuity. Not in football at least. Few football clubs had more tradition than Rangers. Where are they now? And does anyone, their fans excepted, really care? On the other hand, their stadium, which you brought together with my earlier point for some reason, is an attractive listed building. Someone would pay money for that.

But my point, which is quite obvious, was that numbers mean nothing insofar as affecting how you play, unless you allow them to do so, in which case you're a bottler. Why turn down the #7 shirt for a totally intangible reason? Kagawa wouldn't be the best player to wear it, but he wouldn't be the worst either.

Numbers don't really mean anything - they don't make any difference. And tradition and continuity, where it exists, doesn't really make any difference either. Unless you're a Liverpool fan, in which case it's all you've got.

[Plubby]

Once again you've retconned your point. You said they mean nothing. Now you're saying they mean nothing to performance and that's what you meant all along and that should have been obvious.

Except that I don't think anyone has directly linked the shirt you wear as analagous to the way you play or as indicative to the performances you will put out - the original point was coming at it from the other angle. I think it's silly to think that a shirt number makes you a better player. But if a number is associated with players who have been historically great - I don't think it's silly to associate intangible personal criteria to something as equally intangible as the number you wear.