Premier League 2021/22

[METALMAN]

1 hour ago, Colly said:

Social media of course being an absolute bastion of reasoned debate. It's ridiculous, at most other clubs he wouldn't have lasted this long, at Watford we'd have had six managers in the period, but apparently Newcastle fans are the only ones who've ever had the nerve to criticise an utterly useless manager.

Horrible record aside, he played the "everyones against me card" from the first season, and his mates in the media swallowed it up. At times it was embarrassing watching Shearer trying to balance analysis with not being too mean.

What's your point? I just said they were nasty to him and I felt sorry for him. I wasn't making any claims about how reasonable the Newcastle fans were or how representative social media was or whether he was any good.

Maybe I'm just a really nice guy and I feel compassion on a different level from the rest of you : /

[Adam]

2 hours ago, Colly said:

Social media of course being an absolute bastion of reasoned debate. It's ridiculous, at most other clubs he wouldn't have lasted this long, at Watford we'd have had six managers in the period, but apparently Newcastle fans are the only ones who've ever had the nerve to criticise an utterly useless manager.

Horrible record aside, he played the "everyones against me card" from the first season, and his mates in the media swallowed it up. At times it was embarrassing watching Shearer trying to balance analysis with not being too mean.

Now I'm not saying that Bruce was without fault in how he dealt with it all, particularly with the media, but he was subject to a lot of abuse and horrible things being said during his tenure. It's his hometown club, he surely was doing his best even if that was not good enough at a lot of times, and it will have taken its toll on him. You can't say he managed in empty stadiums as if that's the only way he can see or hear criticism or abuse, because it isn't. Plus, he has been manager for more than two years so maybe only around half of that time was in empty stadiums?

I've had intelligent Newcastle fans tell me that they hate Bruce more than they hate Mike Ashley, and all the fat/cabbage stuff will hurt you no matter where you hear it. If I managed my hometown club and became universally hated by the fans and people of my city, I'd be devastated and it would take a big toll on me.

[gunnar hendershow]

Bruce was a terrible hire from the start. Plucking him from Sheff Wed, pissing off that club in the process, and replacing a manager nobody wanted to see go in Rafa. Within a week or so the club bought Joelinton and it was evident very shortly after that it was a terrible decision. As evident as it was that Bruce was tactically overmatched. Frankly he never recovered from there, even the run towards the end of last season where they saved themselves from relegation wasn't attributed to anything he did and instead was (perhaps fairly) chalked up to Graeme Jones.

I never root for failure and certainly never rooted for his failure, but the whole ordeal has been sad to watch. He should've been put out of his misery well over a year ago. That blame falls solely on Ashley who clearly, after the spring of 2020, was just waiting for the dominos to fall into place to sell the club. If Bruce was sacked in the summer of 2020 the reaction wouldn't have been as harsh. He'd have failed, everyone would've gotten on with their day when the next manager presumably also failed.

[The Kraig]

I find the whole situation very sad. I love Steve Bruce, he's a gent and now feels like football isn't for him. That's not because of a few shit results, it's how he was vilified. Newcastle are a few defenders away from a potentially top half team. I'm sure he knows that, but with the previous board, he's fucked. He gets what he is given and works with it. The guy's given his entire life to football and taken on jobs no one else really wanted. Yes, it's paid his bills, but let's not pretend he was in football just for the money.

I'd have liked to see him given a chance with the new owners. It's also left his replacement a very unrealistic expectation of turning things around when there is no transfer window for months.

Going out after 1,000 games in charge is a pretty cool statistic though. I hope he gets the itch to come back to football, but maybe he just wants to watch the chaos from afar from now on.

[The Lusophone]

9 hours ago, Colly said:

Social media of course being an absolute bastion of reasoned debate. It's ridiculous, at most other clubs he wouldn't have lasted this long, at Watford we'd have had six managers in the period, but apparently Newcastle fans are the only ones who've ever had the nerve to criticise an utterly useless manager.

Horrible record aside, he played the "everyones against me card" from the first season, and his mates in the media swallowed it up. At times it was embarrassing watching Shearer trying to balance analysis with not being too mean.

Is Watford, a club that chops and changes managers at will and still isn't very successful, getting relegated the season after Bruce was appointed at Newcastle, really the comparison you want?

For as apparently 'utterly useless' Steve Bruce is, he kept Newcastle firmly in midtable over his time at the club, which is about as well as the more popular and supposedly better manager Rafa Benitez did.

[Colly]

Watford was an utterly flippant aside. But firmly in midtable is a fair stretch. He inherited a midtable side, in two and a half years completely failed to impose anything resembling tactics (his final game saw Matt Ritchie in a back 4...), and flirted with relegation throughout. So many players have regressed under his management. Yes, we may have scraped midtable by the end of the season, but the decline was there to see and 8 games without a win sums that up. You can't even say he's been hamstrung by the owner, while Joelinton was never worth the £40m he's also had Wilson, ASM and Willock added at considerable cost but never had a clue what to do with them ("run about a bit" being the highlight").

Yes, obviously in any fanbase you'll get people who'll make it personal, but the idea he's gone because of fan hostility rather than because his entire managerial record is utterly rubbish is daft. As is the idea of giving him the budget we now have. I'd buy him a pint if I saw him, but I've no sympathy whatsoever.

[METALMAN]

would you buy me a pint?

[Baddar]

You look more like a half kind of guy.

[METALMAN]

Do you think it’s okay to talk to other people like that ?

[Gazz]

4 hours ago, The Kraig said:

he's a gent

Debatable. Constantly thrown the players under the bus for his own shortcomings. Terrible man manager despite a reputation of being a man manager who 'doesn't do tactics', his own words. Darlow found out he'd been dropped via social media because Bruce hadn't told him in person. Publicly blamed Ritchie for his own lack of communication, then refused to speak to Ritchie at training for a whole day, then shoulder barged him from behind when Ritchie refused to be summoned to his office. Publicly blamed Willems for playing in the wrong position, then it was shown that he'd told a career left back on to play in central midfield.

Reportedly sends his assistants to tell players they've not been picked for the team, rather than doing it himself. Moved training to accomodate a weekend away in Portugal for himself, didn't think to tell the players, who turned up Monday morning to find the training ground closed. Ordered the players in early for pre-season training, then didn't turn up himself. Talked repeatedly about having a thick skin and that criticism doesn't effect him, before then moaning about 'hysterical' criticism from 'keyboard warriors'. Has claimed the same 'hysterical' criticism of him at Hull, Sunderland and Villa also. Blamed the fans. Blamed the players. Blamed the refs. Blamed the press. Blamed the board. Blamed everyone but Steve Bruce.

Not to mention, he owns significant properties in and around Birmingham that have been condemned by charities such as Acorn as 'slums'.

4 hours ago, The Kraig said:

few shit results

29% win rate over 97 games. Worst defence in the league this season by just about every metric worth measuring. Horrible football. No identity. No one has a clue what anyone on the pitch is trying to do, not least of all the players. We played four different formations against Spurs and some players played in three different positions over the course of the game, so there was no real gameplan to begin with.

4 hours ago, The Kraig said:

He gets what he is given and works with it.

£160m of new players, all of whom have regressed under him. A well-drilled and well-organisated midtable Premier League squad, all of whom, both collectively and individually have regressed under him. It wasn't pretty under Rafa but at least teams had to actually try to beat us. The ref might as well have abandoned the game on Sunday at half time as Spurs had no real interest in attacking anymore at 3-1 up and we couldn't gain or hold possession. It was basically a low intensity training session. Constant days off from training has left the squad undercoached, poorly organised and massively unfit. Training lacks focus according to the players and half the time, Bruce isn't there on the training pitch anyway.

Had a strong squad at Villa in the Championship that was expected to challenge for automatic promotion. 14th by October. 3 wins in 11. Bruce sacked. A proper manager in Dean Smith is appointed. Immediate improvement, one signing in January, club record 10 wins in a row, win the playoffs to get promoted. Stays up first year in the Premier League, now they're a solid midtable Premier League side in a little over three years.

4 hours ago, The Kraig said:

taken on jobs no one else really wanted

Debatable. Has been poached from jobs to take over other clubs on numerous occasions.

4 hours ago, The Kraig said:

he was in football just for the money.

If he wasn't in it for the money, he'd have resigned months, if not years ago.

[METALMAN]

So Gasz, how do you really feel about Steve Bruce?

[Gazz]

I wouldn't buy him a pint.

[METALMAN]

But would you buy me a pint?

[Gazz]

Absolutely

[The Lusophone]

5 hours ago, Gazz said:

If he wasn't in it for the money, he'd have resigned months, if not years ago.

Why? By pretty much every metric beyond "makes fans happy" he was succeeding at the job he was given.

[The Kraig]

9 hours ago, Gazz said:

Debatable. Constantly thrown the players under the bus for his own shortcomings. Terrible man manager despite a reputation of being a man manager who 'doesn't do tactics', his own words. Darlow found out he'd been dropped via social media because Bruce hadn't told him in person. Publicly blamed Ritchie for his own lack of communication, then refused to speak to Ritchie at training for a whole day, then shoulder barged him from behind when Ritchie refused to be summoned to his office. Publicly blamed Willems for playing in the wrong position, then it was shown that he'd told a career left back on to play in central midfield.

Reportedly sends his assistants to tell players they've not been picked for the team, rather than doing it himself. Moved training to accomodate a weekend away in Portugal for himself, didn't think to tell the players, who turned up Monday morning to find the training ground closed. Ordered the players in early for pre-season training, then didn't turn up himself. Talked repeatedly about having a thick skin and that criticism doesn't effect him, before then moaning about 'hysterical' criticism from 'keyboard warriors'. Has claimed the same 'hysterical' criticism of him at Hull, Sunderland and Villa also. Blamed the fans. Blamed the players. Blamed the refs. Blamed the press. Blamed the board. Blamed everyone but Steve Bruce.

Not to mention, he owns significant properties in and around Birmingham that have been condemned by charities such as Acorn as 'slums'.

29% win rate over 97 games. Worst defence in the league this season by just about every metric worth measuring. Horrible football. No identity. No one has a clue what anyone on the pitch is trying to do, not least of all the players. We played four different formations against Spurs and some players played in three different positions over the course of the game, so there was no real gameplan to begin with.

£160m of new players, all of whom have regressed under him. A well-drilled and well-organisated midtable Premier League squad, all of whom, both collectively and individually have regressed under him. It wasn't pretty under Rafa but at least teams had to actually try to beat us. The ref might as well have abandoned the game on Sunday at half time as Spurs had no real interest in attacking anymore at 3-1 up and we couldn't gain or hold possession. It was basically a low intensity training session. Constant days off from training has left the squad undercoached, poorly organised and massively unfit. Training lacks focus according to the players and half the time, Bruce isn't there on the training pitch anyway.

Had a strong squad at Villa in the Championship that was expected to challenge for automatic promotion. 14th by October. 3 wins in 11. Bruce sacked. A proper manager in Dean Smith is appointed. Immediate improvement, one signing in January, club record 10 wins in a row, win the playoffs to get promoted. Stays up first year in the Premier League, now they're a solid midtable Premier League side in a little over three years.

Debatable. Has been poached from jobs to take over other clubs on numerous occasions.

If he wasn't in it for the money, he'd have resigned months, if not years ago.

All very good points. I didn't know anything of the training ground drama since I generally don't care about spats and can't trust the media reporting it. Sounds like a lot of negligence.

[Colly]

12 hours ago, MadJack said:

Why? By pretty much every metric beyond "makes fans happy" he was succeeding at the job he was given.

Only if the only objective you're using is the owners "stay in the league". By any other logical reason for a manager, largely "get the best out of your squad", he was failing miserably.

[Baddar]

The penalty that Robert Pires and Thierry Henry ballsed up was 16 years ago today.

[Kaney]

Speaking of penalties, Martinez is a bit good at saving them isn't he?

[Cymbols]

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