The Marvel Cinematic Universe TV Thread

[GoGo Yubari]

Generally speaking, pretty good!

Spoiler

I'm going to assume the pan up is not just a "this is a Disney show and we can't show a man getting shot dead" because otherwise they shouldn't have bothered bringing Vincent D'Onofrio back for that. In general, they didn't really do nearly enough to justify the secrecy or the teasing with Kingpin, there wasn't nearly enough of him or anything to really establish him for anyone who hasn't seen Daredevil, and given the absolute weirdness surrounding the Netflix shows and the fact that people are now talking about stuff like Kevin Feige saying "yeah, if we use Daredevil it's going to be Charlie Cox in the role still" as though the character is suddenly canon it's bizarre that they'd basically lean on fan goodwill like that. Kind of feels like the show needed at least one more episode to really set him up as a threat on a level deeper than "big man is real strong."

Also thought the stuff with Kate's mom was disappointing. Felt a little bit too much like six of one, half a dozen of the other with giving her the excuse/justification for why she's involved in crime, which meant I didn't get much satisfaction with how that ended. That being said I don't think either of those complaints are as big for me as my complaints about how WandaVision or Falcon/Winter Soldier ended.

But the show was good! The action was great. As I've said multiple times in the two MCU threads this year it feels like Marvel's 2021 content's primary function is trying to set up characters you'll want to keep seeing as older ones start taking a step back and this one did a great job of it. Obviously Kate will be coming back but goddamn it, I need more Jack Duquesne in my life. Better Call Saul is wrapping up so Tony Dalton's dance card should be pretty free!

 

[Daniel Bryan]

Hawkeye was probably the best of the Disney+ shows - the action was good, Hailee and Florence Pugh were excellent throughout, and it was nice to have low(ish) stakes, but boy did it not stick the landing.

Spoiler

It felt like they had no idea how to resolve anything and they just rushed through it:

• The whole bit with Kate's mom calling the police on Jack and then him just instantly getting released and being fine with it; and then during the Kingpin fight they're seriously just like "Great, now let's put this all behind us," as if winning that one fight suddenly resolves the whole criminal enterprise they've become embroiled in and now they've nothing to worry about. (And I love that D'Onofrio is back in the role, but I'm not thrilled that Kingpin now has superpowers.) And christ, the actual dialogue in that scene was bad, specifically: "Is this what heroes do? Arrest their mother on Christmas?"  Yikes.
• Surely there had to be a better way to get Yelena to back off than just ripping off the worst scene from Batman vs. Superman, and it made even less sense here.
• Did Echo forget that even though Kingpin tipped him off, Clint still murdered her father? She hunts down the others, but just forgets all about the actual killer, and even helps him out at the end there. I get she's got her own show coming up so she needs to be on side, but god damn.

The series was mostly solid, but it had the same problems all the other D+ shows did, and that last episode definitely left a bad taste in my mouth. Feels like they're 0 for 4 on this.

[Hellraiser]

Hawkeye finale and Black Widow post-credit scene spoilers

Spoiler

I'm with @Daniel Bryan. Not a fan of how they concluded the Jack/Kingpin/Eleanor plot. What was the point of Jack being in the show at all? It seemed like they were building him up to be one of the big bads of the show, but then takes a back seat in the second half of the show once and then has a sudden, unexplained heel-face-turn and fights on the good guy's side in the final battle?

I also agree on his point about Echo. I guess Echo is supposed to have a change of heart when Clint reveals that he was tipped off by Kingpin and gave her the "we're both weapons" speech. But I didn't buy that at all. From what we've seen of her in the show, she was absolutely hell-bent on killing Clint. It makes no sense for her to just let him go and even help him. 

I don't mind how the confrontation between Clint and Yelena went down. What confused me is that everyone insisted that it was Eleanor who hired Yelena to kill Clint. Didn't we see in the post-credit scene of Black Widow that Valentina Allegra de Fontaine told Yelena that Clint murdered Natasha and assigned him as Yelena's next target?

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Hellraiser

[tristy]

2 hours ago, Hellraiser said:

Hawkeye finale and Black Widow post-credit scene spoilers

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I'm with @Daniel Bryan. Not a fan of how they concluded the Jack/Kingpin/Eleanor plot. What was the point of Jack being in the show at all? It seemed like they were building him up to be one of the big bads of the show, but then takes a back seat in the second half of the show once and then has a sudden, unexplained heel-face-turn and fights on the good guy's side in the final battle?

I also agree on his point about Echo. I guess Echo is supposed to have a change of heart when Clint reveals that he was tipped off by Kingpin and gave her the "we're both weapons" speech. But I didn't buy that at all. From what we've seen of her in the show, she was absolutely hell-bent on killing Clint. It makes no sense for her to just let him go and even help him. 

I don't mind how the confrontation between Clint and Yelena went down. What confused me is that everyone insisted that it was Eleanor who hired Yelena to kill Clint. Didn't we see in the post-credit scene of Black Widow that Valentina Allegra de Fontaine told Yelena that Clint murdered Natasha and assigned him as Yelena's next target?

 

Spoiler

Valentina is just a handler for Yelena, US Agent, etc. All jobs pass through her.

And I'd imagine any rage Echo might have for Clint probably passed when she realized "Uncle" was the one who had her father killed, since she trusted him and viewed him as a replacement father figure all of these years.

I don't have a problem with Jack being a swerve, it was pretty easy to see in the beginning. They aren't going to use fuckin' Swordsman of all people as a "big bad".

 

[gunnar hendershow]

Spoiler

Every D+ show has had the same thing where they never outright tell you "this is what's coming" and instead thinly disguise it throughout. Agatha, The Power Broker's identity, Kang, and now Kingpin. All have been to varying degrees of obvious. If you have any knowledge of the comics these have all been easily decipherable. I suppose maybe someone totally watching blind will find the reveals surprising, but I haven't once been surprised.

The fact that they leaned in so hard on Jack early in this show was a decent attempt at throwing people off the scent I guess. Though his entire plot role was to help introduce us to Armand and then be a red herring which was odd. I really enjoyed the character though. Just a strange way to use the character.

 

[Gabriel]

About Jack

Spoiler

I absolutely adored that they made him seem like the bad guy, but it turns out he's just a complete buffoon who wants everyone to love him. If they bring him back, I'd love to see him as someone who fancies himself a hero, but gets caught up in things occasionally that have him on the wrong side through no fault of his own.

I also had no issue with him being released from jail and not having a problem with it. He knew he was innocent, but that it looked bad, and never once blamed his fiancee for seeing how it looked and telling the cops. He knew he'd be cleared, and didn't suspect her of being the bad guy... and with his disposition being as it was, it would have been out of character for him to be angry about it.

 

[MalaCloudy Black]

So episode 6 of Hawkeye had a cut post-credits scene, apparently. 

[JasonM]

29 minutes ago, The Redeemer CLDY said:

So episode 6 of Hawkeye had a cut post-credits scene, apparently. 

Probably cut post-credit spoiler:

Spoiler

It was allegedly Kingpin being revealed to have survived his final encounter with Echo.

 

[MalaCloudy Black]

3 hours ago, Absolute JasonM said:

Probably cut post-credit spoiler:

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It was allegedly Kingpin being revealed to have survived his final encounter with Echo.

 

Yeah, what I read was

Spoiler

Kingpin is shown to be still alive and he receives Hawkeye's Ronin sword and a warning not to go after Kate.

 

[MalaCloudy Black]

Also kinda interesting, apparently there was a different "Big Bad" that was going to be the surprise. No word on who though, just "originally it was meant to be someone else". 

[JasonM]

44 minutes ago, The Redeemer CLDY said:

Also kinda interesting, apparently there was a different "Big Bad" that was going to be the surprise. No word on who though, just "originally it was meant to be someone else". 

If I had to make a guess.

Spoiler

Potentially Madame Masque, since she's one of Kate's primary antagonists in the comic books? But that's definitely an angle they can explore in the future now that Kate has been firmly established.

 

[GuyIncognito]

On 24/12/2021 at 19:58, Daniel Bryan said:

 

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Surely there had to be a better way to get Yelena to back off than just ripping off the worst scene from Batman vs. Superman, and it made even less sense here.

 

Spoiler

On the other hand I thought it made total sense. Clint obviously knew everything about Elena from Nat, whereas Yelena had no real clue who Clint is and the nature of his relationship with Nat. Clint using that special whistle, knowing it would bring Yelena from a sense of rage down to a more rational level makes sense to me.

 

[tristy]

On 26/12/2021 at 12:37, The Redeemer CLDY said:

Yeah, what I read was

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Kingpin is shown to be still alive and he receives Hawkeye's Ronin sword and a warning not to go after Kate.

 

That's weird, since one of the writers went on Twitter and said that they filmed (and cut) a post-credit scene with the Tracksuit Mafia and the owl.

Either they filmed a lot of potential credit scenes, or someone is lying.

[MalaCloudy Black]

I wouldn't at all be surprised if they tossed around multiple ideas or filmed multiple post-credits scenes before landing on what we got, tbh

[IDOL]

The wife and I binged all of Hawkeye tonight. Great stuff. Disney is really killing it with making you care about the new batch of heroes going forward.

[livid]

Looks great!

 

[Maxx]

I love how good his costume came out.

[DFF]

Not sure his cape needed to be CGI. That tiny niggle aside, this looks fantastic and has potential to be the best of the MCU shows to date. 

[Kyle]

As someone who would class Moon Knight as one of his favourite comic book characters, I am just a tiny bit excited about this.

[Pooker]

As someone with little to no knowledge of the Moon Knight character, they looks fantastic and his custome looks amazing.