The Emirates FA Cup 2019/20

[FLiam]

Fucking woof. 

I like this Saint Maximin fella.

[Lineker]

@Colly

[DavidMarrio]

7 hours ago, Mad Jack Frost said:

Liverpool fans acting like winning justified Klopp and their club shitting all over the FA Cup are missing the fucking point entirely, and probably intentionally.

 I mean in theory as I said before the game BT offered to show this and yet the FA kicked up a stink and went no. I  acknowledge that this whole thing is a pissing match between Klopp and the FA and the club have backed him.

The amount of vitriol is the "point" I'm missing. Like you cannot say that there have been issues with the FA Cup for a while. Draining capacities, managers putting out rotated teams was also a full house. Despite everyone knowing there would be no first teamers and Klopp wouldn't be there.  I've seen plenty of stadiums who hardly have anyone in it for the FA Cup and that's been a theme for years. I doubt many Prem teams and I include Man Utd in this would have had a capacity like it was last night. 

League Cup everyone slags off and calls tinpot the majority of the time. Heavily rotated teams, capacity issues etc.  Pretty sure you're vocal about scrapping that yet pretty much that may mean a lot to clubs. Rodgers was pretty gutted getting knocked out to Villa in the semis. Is that not disrespectful to the Leagye Cup suggesting to fuck it off?

Europa League. Viewed as a pain in the arse and Prem teams normally rotate quite heavily. Is that not disrespectful to the Europa League/UEFA Cup? Or is it  down to the fact of who is in the dugout? 

If Klopp turned up to the game and played that exact same team. Would people have a problem?  Essentially big nasty Klopp not going is the point most people are hammering home.

Bill Shankly did it and left Paisley in charge for a game and Liverpool drew 1-1, no one kicked up a fuss. Man Utd did it in 2010 in a league cup game when Fergie went to watch David De Gea play. No one kicked up a fuss. Or is it different cause it's the league cup? 

People may say "oh you would moan if it was Mourinho". Honestly? A manager being there or not really doesn't fuss me. 

I said before the match. Shrewsbury were stuck in a lose lose situation between Klopp and the FA over fixture congestion. Something he's been vocal about the whole time he's been here. Probably didn't help that the League Cup game wasn't moved when we had two games in 24 hours on different continents and he's stuck his heels in more. Klopp has always been vocal about a winter break and players needing a break. It could be argued if he's took a stand it may benefit all clubs in the pyramid to having a break. Maybe there should be a standardised schedule across all leagues. Who knows!

My final point. I've always said I want us to win everything. Why wouldn't I? But people honestly cannot say the FA Cup needs revamping in someway. It has lost its shine as an overall competition. I know some ideas have included bigger incentives. Maybe lower league teams should get a bigger percentage of revenue. Theres loads of possibilities. I still want us to win the FA Cup and hey we have a chance of doing that. With or without Klopp being there. 

I'd like to think people would acknowledge some of these points and actually think some make sense. There's two sides to any debate not just "KLOPP AND LIVERPOOL ARE BASTARDS"  

[Jimmy]

I totally accept that you might not, but I guarantee if Pep or Mourinho would've tried this, Liverpool fans would've had something to say and totally wouldn't have shrugged their shoulders and gone "yep, sure fair enough." 

Klopp's totally justified in picking the kids. Whether they won or not. They're clearly a talented bunch & it's a great way of progressing a player's development and creating a bond with the club. That was always the silver lining of being in the Europa League - it was great to see a rotated team and give chances to young players. 

I'm just a little bemused about, what I perceive as, double standards. It might be unfair, but I truly don't believe your fan base would've accepted another, less-liked, top level manager doing the same thing. So I find the us vs. the world mentality in regards to this FA Cup tie a little baffling.

As I said before - I do think he should be there, but ultimately, all power to him for not.

Shame Shrewsbury were the big losers, though. Especially after that first tie. They deserved way more. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Jimmy

[Colly]

The point Mad Jack is making though is that there's this bizarre narrative flying around that the grumpiness is an anti Liverpool thing and "everyone plays a weakened team". You're guilty of it yourself, my all caps post wasn't angry, it was literally to stand out to see if you'd actually take in the fact that all the grumpiness is rightly directed at Klopp.

The players had a break as promised (even though the club had signed up to the replay if necessary months ago), but it was completely unnecessary for Klopp to not turn up. Maybe the FA Cup is devalued, but I don't even think this is about the FA Cup. This is about a manager who when held to a draw by a League 1 side decided he couldn't be arsed to represent his team for the replay. It's disrespectful to the Shrewsbury manager, players and fans, and it's disrespectful to the Liverpool fans who've been able to take kids in on the cheap to find that not only are the star players not there but also the charismatic manager couldn't be arsed. The fact you managed to win 1-0 thanks to an OG doesn't change anything about that, you were still favourites regardless.

[RazorsEdge]

50 minutes ago, DavidMarrio said:

If Klopp turned up to the game and played that exact same team. Would people have a problem?  Essentially big nasty Klopp not going is the point most people are hammering home.

Bill Shankly did it and left Paisley in charge for a game and Liverpool drew 1-1, no one kicked up a fuss. Man Utd did it in 2010 in a league cup game when Fergie went to watch David De Gea play. No one kicked up a fuss. Or is it different cause it's the league cup?

Not just to defend United but Fergie at least was scouting someone who would go on to be immensely important to the team - if Klopp was doing the same I wouldn't have an issue. Klopp just wanted his holiday and quite clearly has a grudge against the FA.

I suppose my main point from this would be - if you were in the same situation but had to play Manchester City, Chelsea etc. do you think Klopp and the boys would still be on holiday? If the answer is no then he, especially, should have been there.

What's done is done now and a precedent has been set that will unfortunately probably see more and more teams doing the same thing.

And I don't think anyone was saying that you in particular would kick up a fuss, just Liverpool fans in general. Just as fans of the other teams have done for Klopp.

Good on the young lads for winning, though, I just think Klopp should've been there - even if he was only in an advisory capacity letting the coaches who know the players better deal with them. And props to them for dropping ticket prices.

[Adam]

4 hours ago, DavidMarrio said:

My final point. I've always said I want us to win everything. Why wouldn't I? But people honestly cannot say the FA Cup needs revamping in someway. It has lost its shine as an overall competition. I know some ideas have included bigger incentives. Maybe lower league teams should get a bigger percentage of revenue. Theres loads of possibilities. I still want us to win the FA Cup and hey we have a chance of doing that. With or without Klopp being there. 

I just want to reply to this bit of your post David as I think you've made some really fair points, and Colly has since said it better than I could regarding Klopp I think.

But on the "shine" of the FA Cup, I do not feel it has lost its so-called magic at all. The only people it has lost its lustre to are the top few elite teams, who have started showing it the contempt that Klopp and Liverpool have here, and of course with the greedy TV companies who basically exploit what makes the FA Cup wonderful to push up viewing figures and what not.

I watched Newcastle at Oxford last night and saw the magic in full effect. What a tie that became between two sides world's apart in the pyramid, a full house on a Tuesday night and actually two teams desperate to win. Newcastle played a very strong side and an Oxford team who would probably take a League One Play-Off place over a cup run going for it full throttle on national TV.

I've seen that magic with my own team last season, both sides of it in fact. We got held to a draw at Chorley of the sixth tier, they sold out their little ground and led twice, what a day for them. Celebrated a last minute winner against Oldham like we'd won the league because it put us into Round 5 for the first time since the 1950s, and enjoyed a day in front of the BBC cameras against Crystal Palace.

I speak to Everton and Newcastle fans who would love to see their side win the FA Cup because they hardly ever get to taste proper success and a trophy. So I do not buy that the tournament has lost its shine. The "big 6" or whatever you want to call them seem to disregard it in favour of the big bucks of the Champions League, but you're not telling me most wouldn't take a nice cup win at Wembley over finishing 4th in the league? From a purely fan perspective.

And besides, it wasn't too long ago at all that Liverpool were on a barren trophyless run that kept being hung around the manager's neck as a sign of failure, including Klopp. He would've taken the FA Cup seriously then I'm sure, just as Arsene Wenger did when Arsenal went so long without winning anything.

[FLiam]

The FA Cup is fantastic, and I won't let anybody say otherwise.

There is nothing like FA cup final day in domestic football. 

[The Lusophone]

I loved winning the FA Cup under LVG and felt it should've meant he kept his job. The way we treated him immediately after winning it was disgraceful and took the shine off of his and the team's achievement.

[Tigerstyle]

Didn’t Man Utd just not play in it one year, after winning?

The FA Cup means a lot more to some teams than others, to say it’s lost it’s shine is just looking down from a high hill, but maybe those top teams should just withdraw from the competition, ultimately it’s not ‘disrespecting the FA Cup’ when you are respecting the health of your players, it’s for the powers that be to work around it, especially if they want to tout that English football is the best in the world blah blah.

Or, allow European clubs in at the 5th round 🧐. Either way, in modern football, with 3 international tournaments every 4 years it’s not working.

[The Lusophone]

14 minutes ago, Tigerstyle said:

Didn’t Man Utd just not play in it one year, after winning?

The FA in June 1999 asked United to skip it so they could play in the inaugural Club World Cup, believing it would help their bid to host the 2006 World Cup.

[Colly]

34 minutes ago, Tigerstyle said:

Didn’t Man Utd just not play in it one year, after winning?

The FA Cup means a lot more to some teams than others, to say it’s lost it’s shine is just looking down from a high hill, but maybe those top teams should just withdraw from the competition, ultimately it’s not ‘disrespecting the FA Cup’ when you are respecting the health of your players, it’s for the powers that be to work around it, especially if they want to tout that English football is the best in the world blah blah.

Or, allow European clubs in at the 5th round 🧐. Either way, in modern football, with 3 international tournaments every 4 years it’s not working.

This is pretty much nonsense though, the top teams have big enough squads to accommodate a cup run. Hell, even Newcastle usually have enough players to rotate in for our annual one round exit. If anything it just gives the big sides a couple of extra games for their Europa League keeper to play in...

[Liam]

8 hours ago, Colly said:

The point Mad Jack is making though is that there's this bizarre narrative flying around that the grumpiness is an anti Liverpool thing and "everyone plays a weakened team". You're guilty of it yourself, my all caps post wasn't angry, it was literally to stand out to see if you'd actually take in the fact that all the grumpiness is rightly directed at Klopp.

The players had a break as promised (even though the club had signed up to the replay if necessary months ago), but it was completely unnecessary for Klopp to not turn up. Maybe the FA Cup is devalued, but I don't even think this is about the FA Cup. This is about a manager who when held to a draw by a League 1 side decided he couldn't be arsed to represent his team for the replay. It's disrespectful to the Shrewsbury manager, players and fans, and it's disrespectful to the Liverpool fans who've been able to take kids in on the cheap to find that not only are the star players not there but also the charismatic manager couldn't be arsed. The fact you managed to win 1-0 thanks to an OG doesn't change anything about that, you were still favourites regardless.

The forum post equivalent of 💯

19 hours ago, Colly said:

NO ONE SHIT ON THE IDEA OF THE KIDS PLAYING. EVERYONE SHIT ON THE IDEA OF YOUR MANAGER NOT TURNING UP.

Or maybe it's this one.

Shit.

💯all up in this place.

[Tigerstyle]

3 hours ago, Colly said:

This is pretty much nonsense though, the top teams have big enough squads to accommodate a cup run. Hell, even Newcastle usually have enough players to rotate in for our annual one round exit. If anything it just gives the big sides a couple of extra games for their Europa League keeper to play in...

Newcastle don’t have to play 6+ European games, possibly in the arsehole end of nowhere either? On top of that, the majority of their players aren’t starting for national teams that go deep in tournaments.

Its not a comparison what European teams have to go through, and then to say ‘stockpile extra players’ is the way forward is just short sighted.

[The Lusophone]

I mean the solution would be to have the Premier League break at a different time and not in a month were many teams will be playing a ton of games in multiple competitions. The Premier League break could've easily been earlier and would match the breaks in every other major league in Europe, but they were too concerned with "protecting" the Christmas schedule.

[Chris2K]

Well at least Spurs won't have to worry about having to rotate the squad for the fifth round.

 

EDIT: And the second I write that, we score. DAMMIT SPURS.

[DavidMarrio]

The christmas schedule whilst good being off work is also a pain in the arse for fans who have to travel to home or away games, for employees needed at grounds such as stewards, hospitality etc and players who are playing competitive games in a short span and as a result teams are often stockpiling injuries. 

Unfortunately as @Mad Jack Frost pointed out,  money dictates the game and its games being put on at silly days/times which shafts fans. 

 

 

 

Danny Ings must be a shoo in for the England squad at the Euros. He's had a cracking season

[Chris2K]

What a pass that was, deserved a goal to come from it. Not great from Son really.

 

Well there we go.

[MDK]

I thought Brexit would solve this fixture congestion

 

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

Shouldn't we be in the semis by now?!