NBA 2017-2018 Season

[Pooker]

I'd be pissed if my team lost games on purpose or didn't put out the best possible team just to try to get a better draft pick.

[Meacon Keaton]

Five years ago, so would I. But now?  Nope.

[Benjamin]

6 hours ago, Meacon said:

If I had any faith in the front office, I’d love for the Knicks to tank a few years to try the approach. We suck anyway. Why not lose a dozen more times to get a higher percentage for a #1? 

Last night I was absentmindedly watching some video on YouTube of Isaiah Thomas' stint in the Knicks front office, and got pleasantly reminded of Jerome James, supposed future star of the Knicks  

[GhostMachine]

I hate intentional tanking, in any sport. It really isn't fair to fans who bought tickets to the game, for one thing. 

 

[Your Mom]

I wouldn't mind tanking. It would help make my team better in the end

[Meacon Keaton]

Basketball is the only sport I'd be ok with it, because it's legit the only professional sport that it would work. The NFL, you can turn a team around through a few smart free agent signings and good drafting, at any position in the draft. Baseball is a long game, and getting a #1 overall pick is never essential to building a franchise. And hockey isn't as superstar centric as the NBA that it'd automatically take the worst team from the best. 

In a league like the NBA where half of the teams make the playoffs, but only four are legit championship contenders, I have no issue with my team sucking and losing 62 games and getting the #1 pick instead of my team sucking and losing 52 games and getting the #7 pick. We'll suck either way. At least this way we'll be doing it for long term betterment and not consistently getting the #7 pick for five years straight. 

[Benjamin]

How are the Morris twins suddenly so good at their jobs?! They're supposed to be permanent bench players who occasionally play, but are usually sent down to the G-League every few months. The fact that they've become very good roles players this season is incredible.

[Malenko]

Er.. markieff Morris has been starting since 2014 and I don't remember him ever being sent down to the d-league/g-league and even Marcus was starting the last couple of seasons for the pistons and he hasn't been sent down in years.

[Benjamin]

Yeah, I know that, but they're supposed to suck, not actually be productive for their teams 

[JasonM]

The years they were together on the Suns were the worst for them, because they just seemed to feed each other's bad sides. And when Marcus was traded to Detroit and Markieff had a shitfit about it on the suns, I honestly thought neither would have a career in the NBA.

But being away from each other has been the best thing, they're too identical as players and really can't fit in the same team either as players or personalities. They both found the best possible home on top of all that. They're both on teams that can challenge for top 4 honours in the east in the next few years. Maybe Wizards less than Celts, but any team with John Wall is a dangerous one.

[livid]

12 hours ago, Meacon said:

Basketball is the only sport I'd be ok with it, because it's legit the only professional sport that it would work. The NFL, you can turn a team around through a few smart free agent signings and good drafting, at any position in the draft. Baseball is a long game, and getting a #1 overall pick is never essential to building a franchise. And hockey isn't as superstar centric as the NBA that it'd automatically take the worst team from the best. 

In a league like the NBA where half of the teams make the playoffs, but only four are legit championship contenders, I have no issue with my team sucking and losing 62 games and getting the #1 pick instead of my team sucking and losing 52 games and getting the #7 pick. We'll suck either way. At least this way we'll be doing it for long term betterment and not consistently getting the #7 pick for five years straight. 

My thing with tanking is how is it really any different than "rebuilding"? It's the same principle of resetting your team to position it for success in the future. I think the issue is that basketball teams that are bad are really bad. The 76ers weren't doing anything the Astros weren't also doing in baseball, it's just a bit more obvious in the sport they were doing it in. 

[JasonM]

6 minutes ago, livid said:

My thing with tanking is how is it really any different than "rebuilding"? It's the same principle of resetting your team to position it for success in the future. I think the issue is that basketball teams that are bad are really bad. The 76ers weren't doing anything the Astros weren't also doing in baseball, it's just a bit more obvious in the sport they were doing it in. 

Since my team is tanking (Mavs) right now, I might be a bit biased. But tanking is really a problem with how the system in the USA works, where there are x amounts of teams in the league and there being no incentive to win when you're no longer going to make the playoffs.

At the same time the worst teams get to draft the best players (theoretically), so there IS incentive to suck as hard as you can and try to get as good a lottery position you can get for the draft. A #1 pick is a big step into potentially becoming a winning team, although the Lebron-less Cavs have proven that it's not a guaranteed winning formula.

In sports leagues where there's a pyramid where you can relegate and promote from and to the top league, there's incentive to not be the worst, because being the worst means going down to a worse division with less prestige, talent, and money. Also since there's continental football to be played, there's incentive to get into the top 6-10 depending on the league even if your team isn't going to challenge for the championship.

Finally, even finishing mid-table and having no continental football, no title shots, and there being no draft that incentivizes you has an advantage in non-franchise based sports leagues, because the higher you finish the more money you receive at the end of the season...

Anyways, that's neither here nor there. Tanking is just a massive quirk of the franchise system of sports that you have in the USA, and without doing away with drafts and breaking open the league there will be no reason to not tank when you're not making the playoffs. What's the use for pride when you're always 9th in the west/east, you're not in the playoffs, but you're also not picking any of the high tier draft picks available every year? You can get lucky with a pick, sure, but those breakout talents are few and far between.

Also, another rant, I'm beyond annoyed that the league is weighing with two scales when it comes to tanking. With Adam Silver fining the Mavs for making remarks about tanking (deserved, I feel, because it was too on the nose), and also telling multiple teams that they would be fined if they rested players, or were tanking too obviously...

But at the same time the Suns have lost 12 in a row and the Grizzlies are 2-8 and were actively having a laugh after a huge blowout loss.

You can't throw the book at one team, then shrug at others doing the same thing or worse. Because whilst the Mavs are tanking, they're arguably the most competitive bad team in the league whilst doing it.

[Malenko]

Getting the best prospects allows those "bad" teams to have a shot at being good a few years down the line, which is something you don't get (or rarely get) in european sports with the pyramid system. In the NBA, even the Lakers and Celtics have had really bad periods in their history (I use those two as examples because obviously, they have won the most) and weaker teams have been able to win titles or at least go far. Pre-Jordan Bulls had been bad for quite a while until they got him at 3 (and then Pippen, etc..). The Warriors had gone through 2 really bad spells until they managed to become champions with a team based on 3 draftees, who weren't even selected in the top 5 picks, but still.

These are not historically terrible teams because obviously, the Warriors had won titles beforehand and the Bulls were a playoff team in the 70s. That's not what I meant. I meant both teams got undeniably much better through their respective drafts - and bad drafts from those who picked before them in both cases.

Would the Bucks have gotten to 2 finals in the 70s and win one if they hadn't been bad in 68 and get Kareem because of it? For sure they wouldn't.

Obviously, free agency and trades allow some teams to stay competitive most of the time but a good draft still helps others, not to mention some teams need to win to stay profitable enough, because not every team will have enough money/following to remain in the league even while being terrible. 

I'm not a fan of tanking - I accept it as a means to an end that most teams use - but while the current draft system may not be perfect, I still wouldn't want to get rid of the draft system helping teams with worse records.

Also, maybe next year with the rule changes, things will change a bit as well? 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Malenko

[Pooker]

I think the difference is clear to see. Cuban admitted that it was best for his team to lose as much as possible. It makes sends to try to land a star in the draft to pair next to Dirk his last few seasons. Might get lucky and get a Duncan type and Dirk goes out on a high note. Suns and Grizzlies, their teams aren't built to win right now. Suns are too young and Grizz broke up their core and are hurt.

[VerbalPuke]

9 hours ago, Malenko said:

Er.. markieff Morris has been starting since 2014 and I don't remember him ever being sent down to the d-league/g-league and even Marcus was starting the last couple of seasons for the pistons and he hasn't been sent down in years.

Yeah, Marcus was solid for us. He’s kind of a black hole on offense but a good piece to have. 

The Pistons need a real tank job. They always miss the playoffs and pick between 8-10, it’s fucking annoying. 

[Malenko]

If you give your first pick + Tobias Harris + Avery Bradley + Marjanovic for Blake Griffin, why would you be tanking for? :\

[livid]

Because the team somehow got worse after the trade. 

That said, I'm not one to talk. The Bucks are a hot mess at the moment. 

[Malenko]

I was expecting it to get worse to be honest, but I'm not going to go on a rant explaining with detail how overrated I feel Griffin is because I've done it enough in my life. 

[Pooker]

Just now, Malenko said:

I was expecting it to get worse to be honest, but I'm not going to go on a rant explaining with detail how overrated I feel Griffin is because I've done it enough in my life. 

Griffin and Howard are the two most disappointing players I've ever watched. Both have so much talent and had so much potential to just dominate the game on both ends. 

[livid]

At least Griffin isn't a coach killer...yet.