World Cup 2010 Thread

[IAceI]

I wouldn't have minded a Rooney striking for England to be perfectly honest.

[Dynamite]

There is a lack of promising English players waiting in the wings at present, but you'd hope they'll be vastly improved in four years time. Hart should become first-choice keeper now. Johnson will be 29 and feasibly still in the team. Richards as his back-up/replacement or in the centre? Cole will be 34 but we're not too blessed with talented replacements. Gibbs? Rio will be 35, Terry 33 so I'd expect Terry to hang around for 2014 even if a back-up. Who else will come through though? Jagielka, Dawson, Shawcross, Cahill, maybe even Smalling if he improves enough?

In the midfield, I'd expect Milner to move into a permenent place in the middle. Maybe Rodwell and Wilshere to get places in the squad. Huddlestone? Johnson should get the left-wing spot. I'm guessing it'll be Lennon on the right, Young should get a shot, Walcott if he turns into a footballer maybe? Other than that I'm not too sure of who we've got able to step up.

By 2014, I hope we've got Rooney up on his own after realising we need three in the middle. Young English strikers able to come in? Agbonlahor? Maybe Bent will get his chance?

Am I missing some obvious players because I can't seem to think of too many?

Edited June 28, 2010 by Dynamite

[Gazz]

Andy Carroll, at least until he gets put in prison for glassing someone who spilled his pint of Nukey Brown...

[9 to 5]

Phil Jones to replace Terry.

[therockbox]

I know Martin Kelly's highly rated by the England and Liverpool set-ups. Comfortable at right back and centre back (although will probably be a central defender long term), and he looked good when he played against Lyon in the Champions League last season when Johnson was injured. Shame he got injured, otherwise he probably would've had 10-15 senior appearances to his name already.

[Liam]

I'm sorry, I think there's a big difference between offside and the ball crossing the line. I know that might be hypocritical because I am English, and I would be angry if England had scored a goal when they were onside. But there's something very, very different about it. And the US one's happened in a group stage and they still made it through. If we had won the game, it wouldn't be as a big of a deal.

There really isn't much of a difference between the ball bouncing at least 6 inches beyond the line and a referee not seeing 4 guys get mugged in plain sight and instead making a phantom offsides call when no one was offsides. The Dempsey situation was closer to what happened today in terms of the amount of space being tight and the call being wrong both times. The two goals that were disallowed may not have been as significant in the long run, but the calls are equally terrible and neither one was as egregious as that atrocity in the Argentina/Mexico game.

I just love how when it happened to us (twice) people in this thread were saying that sure it sucked but that's the game and no reason to shout out for FIFA to make changes because it won't. We said it'd be different if it happened to England or some "big" team.

Well, now it happened to England and there's a hell of a lot more people chirping about how FIFA needs to make changes

I'm sorry, I think there's a big difference between offside and the ball crossing the line. I know that might be hypocritical because I am English, and I would be angry if England had scored a goal when they were onside. But there's something very, very different about it. And the US one's happened in a group stage and they still made it through. If we had won the game, it wouldn't be as a big of a deal.

But that goal denied us 2-2, and that could've changed the whole game.

Yes, we were shit afterwards and deserved to lose. But it will always be a what-if situation. However, somehow, I'm more glad we lost 4-1 than 2-1. Because if we had, I'd be fuming - as would everyone in the country.

No...there is not a big difference from the two aside from you being a fan of England and therefore you're trying to tell yourself that you got screwed. Both were goals. Both were horrible calls from the officials.

If you want to go into the what-ifs US having a win vs Slovenia would have created more momentum for the US too and who knows how that translates into a different US game tomorrow. The whole "what if" just doesn't make sense if you just want to play it for one side.

Firstly, with the US goal against Slovenia, did he even give offside? I thought he gave it for a percieved USA foul in the box, one which may have been pointed out by the linesman?

Even then, the reason there is a big difference is that one is a judgement call (if the goal was disallowed for a foul, rather than an offside), and one is clear cut.

...just checked the BBC report of the goal:

The Americans thought they had won it through substitute Maurice Edu's volley but the strike was harshly ruled out by referee Koman Coulibaly for an alleged pull and the US players were furious.

So yeah, judgement call. Bullshit call, no doubt, but the the referee has seen what he considered a foul, and would percieveably stick by it when called to task. The England call was whether the ball crossed the line or not, something that is generally cut and dry.

[Hobo]

I'm sorry, I can't hear you Scottish and Irish fans who didn't make it to South Africa... something about distance and drowning in your own bitterness and jealousy makes it a touch muffled.

I'd rather go out in the play-offs with some heart after being fucked over by FIFA and the ref then have our lot go to South Africa and make an embarresment of themselves and the contry in the process. (Y)

I'm part Irish, and love to see Ireland do well.

However, they had 180 minutes to beat France, and then an extra 30. So you can give the 'fucked over by FIFA' line and whilst it was an atrocious decision, Ireland weren't good enough to qualify outright, and then didn't do enough to beat the one team they had to beat.

I've been fed up of the Henry stuff since about the day after the match.

({)

[Dynamite]

Phil Jones to replace Terry.

I coildn't believe he's only 18 when I saw him vs. Man Utd. We weren't much of a threat that day but he was really impressive stopping the likes of Berbatov and Giggs. The only other game I saw him in was against Chelsea where I thought he had a great game again. He's got the right manager in Allardyce to develop into a very good defender as well.

[TCO]

Wasn't there a rumour that Andy Carroll was going to play for Scotland?

If he did it'd be a big loss for England in the long-run, he's turning into quite a player.

[Rich]

I think this season will be crucial for Carrol, it'll show whether he is going to turn in to a quality player or another Ebanks-Blake where he scores bucket loads at Championship level, but doesn't score a premier league level :/

[Farmer Reil]

Remember when this was a World Cup thread and we had separate England thread?

Anyway, today we have defending Unofficial World Champions the Netherlands vs. a giant-killing (even if the giant had two broken legs and suffered from chronic arthritis) Slovakia.

"Winning ugly" vs. "winning at all would be awesome". Should be a good game. ¬_¬

Edit: Hah. Slovakia have had seven shots on goal all tournament, and scored four goals. Three against Italy.

Edited June 28, 2010 by Farmer Reil

[9 to 5]

Phil Jones to replace Terry.

I coildn't believe he's only 18 when I saw him vs. Man Utd. We weren't much of a threat that day but he was really impressive stopping the likes of Berbatov and Giggs. The only other game I saw him in was against Chelsea where I thought he had a great game again. He's got the right manager in Allardyce to develop into a very good defender as well.

The Chelsea game was his debut.

It's alot to say an 18 year old will become a big player for England, but I can see his potential already. I hope he can keep his feet on teh ground and keep learning his trade.

[IAceI]

Jordan Henderson for Sunderland, anywhere in midfield (well, centre or the right). When we beat Arsenal at the Stadium of Light last season 1-0 he ran the show, kept Fabregas quiet and just made his impact absolutely minimal.

Wouldn't be shocked if Lee Cattermole featured in some form in the future either - if he can keep himself free of injury.

What I can see working against them is that they play for an unfashionable team in Sunderland, but both have the potential to at least get some England caps in the future depending on the depth of the national pool. I would like to see us try and push through English players on the whole a bit more, and also reduce our astronomical fees for anyone of English heritage too.

We can't expect teams to buy worse players for the sake of the national team, so we need the prices to come down but also a bit of a shake-up at the grass roots level to make sure the players coming through will be good enough for the top teams. As much as we like to moan about Arsneal's foreign players, they have a good set-up with a lot of English players coming through.

I'd like to see players start getting a chance immediately, too. If players aren't going to be around in 2014 then they need to be phased out in some form or another. I'd love to see the next generation of players getting a chance to impress on a national stage, but we will wait and see.

[Farmer Reil]

Robben!

I was just about to say "ffs, don't waste it!" and then remember he's not Steven Gerrard, some of Robben's are actually on target.

[9 to 5]

I have money riding on the Dutch to go all the way, so yes, that was a sweet goal for me to enjoy.

[Fry_4000]

amazing goal by Robben

[EddieG]

8/1 on Robben to score first, that's 8 quid in my pocket.

What a beauty too.

[Pesci]

I got really pissed off when Mowbray said something like "how many of these would you swap for England players? The answer is one, maybe 2". No, fuck that, more like 7, maybe 8 :@ Neuer, Lahm, Khedeira, Schweinsteiger, Ozil, Muller, Klose and Podolski would all get in my England starting line-up, and I was saying that before the game. Klose and Podolski have an international pedigree that we can only dream of, Muller and Ozil have looked awesome so far, Khedeira and Schweinsteiger make for a much more mobile and balanced central midfield, Lahm is leagues ahead of Johnson and Neuer is one of a few German goalies I'd have in ahead of James. I hate lazy commentary and I hate the unwarranted England worshipping that comes with it. Germany are one of the few countries that always know how to work as a team and have players that understand their role well. Add in great prospects like Ozil and Muller, and the goal-scoring machine that is Klose and they're a brilliant outfit. I don't get why we underestimated them. Saying that, I thought we'd win the game but I was clearly overestimating our discipline, patience and ability with the ball at our feet.

I don't think Capello is the right manager for England either. Our players are spoilt brats who refuse to follow instructions and the next generation are only gonna be worse because every teenager growing up in this country at the moment is a cunt - under Sven the team may have been given a lot of license to have fun and joke around (McClaren took it too far) but we always raised our game against the better teams and that capitlation wouldn't have happened. I've always thought the opposite but maybe someone like Redknapp would make a good England manager - he's an excellent motivator and he knows how to talk to people and we have a group of players who need their egos nurturing - if only he didn't insist on playing 4-4-2 all the time. The national set-up needs serious redevelopment and I don't think Capello's the man for the job - he's only here until 2012, he's rightly concentrating on doing his best for the Euros and nothing past that. So he can carry on using the Gerrards and the Lampards who will be past it by 2014 and as long as he's done a good job at the Euros and restored his reputation, he's laughing. I'd rather have somebody who's going to rebuild the team with the next World Cup in mind - international managers should always work in blocks of four years with the World Cup as the culmination of their work.

Speaking of the 4-4-2, rockbox said everything I was gonna say about it. It's not flexible enough and it's been abandoned by virtually everybody at the top level. We need to play a 4-5-1/4-3-3 focused on ball retention and stop playing like headless chickens. And stop trying to wedge players into an unfamiliar system just to get their name on the team sheet. Gerrard, Rooney and Lampard, probably our most potent attacking threats, aren't playing in their best positions and clearly aren't effective in these roles so if Capello insists on playing a 4-4-2, play people who work in it. Otherwise, find a formation that brings out the best in some of them and sacrifice those who just don't work.

Let's be honest, we're fucked for 2014 anyway. It's in Brazil and we always do shit outside of Europe and Brazil aren't going to let anybody else win (though Argentina's already immense attack will be in their prime on their own continent by then so... awesome :/) so what's the point in trying - our next generation of players is shit anyway and has more or less the same fundamental flaws as the current crop.

Edited June 28, 2010 by Pesci

[Herr Matzat]

Roben needs to be disqualified for being to awsome.

[Gazz]

(/pessimism) You're assuming we'll qualify for 2014...