NBA 2013-2014 Season Thread

[livid]

Yeah but people said that about Alex Rodriguez too and look where he's at. Granted, I doubt LeBron is going to go through all of the steroid stuff but that doesn't mean that there won't be a factor that prevents him from reaching that point. That's why talk of legacy is always absurd unless the player is a year or two away from retiring because at that point, it actually matters. Before then it's just a bunch of hypothetical nonsense.

[DMN in the House]

Jordan

Magic

Kareem

Russell

Duncan

Lebron isn't going to be better than any of those 5. That's not including Shaq, who's either the first or second most dominant player ever, and Wilt, who would be either the first or second most dominant player ever. Lebron has two titles. Jordan has six, Magic has 5, Kareem has 6, Russell has 9 (as a player), Duncan has 5. Throw in Kobe, who has 5, and that's just talking about players who are definitely on Lebron's level of talent, where championships become the difference maker.

I could see Lebron winning two, MAYBE three more, he has the time, but that only puts him in the argument, and I'd still put any of those players, save MAYBE Kobe, above him.

I'm not a Lebron hater, but anyone thinking he's definitely top 5 all-time is giving him too much credit for stuff he hasn't done yet. He has a long way to go.

[gunnar hendershow]

Surely Wilt is ahead of Duncan. I always go Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, and Magic but LeBron is knocking both Magic and Wilt's doors.

[DMN in the House]

No one is ahead of Magic! [/Laker homerism]

Wilt only has two championships, and it's hard to argue that he was 'more dominant' than Shaq, who has four, given the difference in eras. He's definitely not above Russell, who beat him practically every they played that mattered. If I was starting a team from scratch, and could take any one, from any era, I'd probably take Magic above anyone, since his skill set and physical tools are harder to come by than Jordan's, and Duncan has five titles, though he's not anywhere near the physical specimen Wilt was.

I honestly kinda think Wilt's overrated.

[gunnar hendershow]

Wilt carried some god awful teams though whereas Russell was surrounded by the best roster ever assembled. Kinda hard to discredit the guy for 2 rings when his prime was spent in Philadelphia who constantly were getting beat by Auerbach's Celtics.

People who've seen Wilt play all tell me the same thing, he dominated everyone he played and had Russell not had a better team around him he'd have dominated him as well.

[Mofoticon]

Wilt carried some god awful teams though whereas Russell was surrounded by the best roster ever assembled. Kinda hard to discredit the guy for 2 rings when his prime was spent in Philadelphia who constantly were getting beat by Auerbach's Celtics.

People who've seen Wilt play all tell me the same thing, he dominated everyone he played and had Russell not had a better team around him he'd have dominated him as well.

Bill Simmons basketball book has a whole section devoted to Russell vs Wilt and breaking down everything about the two (a great read). The perception that Wilt played with worse teams than Russell is simply not true. Wilt was simply obsessed with statistics (spending an entire season leading the league in assists just to do something different among other things) while Russell was obsessed with winning. It's not even an argument that Russell is superior. Wilt had the talent, but not the drive.

[Benjamin]

However, if we use the fact that one guy had a better team than the other guy, surely we have to reevaluate LeBron then? Sure he only has 2 rings, but the guy has constantly tried to be an inspiration to his team. The one game Heat won in this year's finals was because of the whole team. The other three games (barring game 3), is because Miami didn't show up, except LeBron, and unfortunately the guy can't guard all five of his opponents on the floor.

[Plubby]

Well why the fuck not?! Jordan guarded all 5 guys AND psychically fed the opposing coach's voice back into his own eardrum to disrupt his speech and prevent him from calling plays.

[Maxx]

Dude was a competitor.

[DMN in the House]

Bill Russell was, almost without dispute, a better leader than Wilt Chamberlain. I'm not trying to take anything away from Wilt, he was an amazing talent, but I'd rather have Russell or Duncan over him.

Lebron might be able to use the 'talent' caveat when he was in Cleveland, but not in Miami. Again, I'm not really trying to disparage Lebron, just saying he's going to have a really fucking hard time breaking into 'Top 5' all-time, and he's already out of the running for GOAT.

[gunnar hendershow]

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/18/gregg-popovich-appears-to-poke-fun-at-lebron-heat-during-spurs-championship-parade-video/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I like to just assume he's trolling.

[HC]

Joel Embiid may have broken his foot. I'm convinced it was done on purpose to save himself from Cleveland.

[Meacon Keaton]

And Cleveland are bringing in Dante Exum for a personal workout. I know they're probably just covering their bases, but it's bizarre to think of how many different scenarios this draft could have. We went from "Oh Wiggins is guaranteed #1" to "Well, it'll be Wiggings or Parker going #1" to "Embiid! HOLYJESUSOMGUGUYZ is #1" to possibly having the 19 year-old Aussie going #1.

[Rafael]

How about the D-League MVP going into the Top 10?

[DYSI]

Looks like LeBron in Miami isn't a sure thing after that Riley press conference. I'm not sure where else he could really go and achieve the type of success he's looking for though. I don't see him going to Cleveland or NY. I could see the Clippers if they make it work on the cap but does he really want to go out West when you could win the East with 30 wins?

[Meacon Keaton]

Don't rule out the Knicks! Keep the hope!

[Plubby]

*hug*

Look, Meacon. I've got some good news and some bad news. The good news is that LeBron probably likes *you*.

[DMN in the House]

People around here are talking about Lebron coming to the Lakers.

I want him, because then the team would be competitive.

I don't want him, because, ehh, Lebron.

[Benjamin]

If Lakers get LeBron it would be like they were trying to monopolize all my hatred.

[HC]

I doubt he's going to the Lakers to play with an aging Kobe who has probably got 3 years left in the tank. I doubt him and Kobe would gel together style-wise either. I mean I think they have the cap space and I'm sure they'll make a run if he opts-out, but he has better options unless they manage to bring in Calipari and Kevin Love or something as well.

Also, Pat Riley's speech today was really weird. He came across as almost desperate when referring to the Big Three staying together. Of course you could choke on the irony of his "You guys need to stay and leaving is a cheap way out" garbage considering he built the team by signing away major stars.